Dec 14th 2007 3:19PM
Team DMOZ
As a follow up to our last post and as a chance to continue allowing our editors the chance to share their experiences with the world at large, here is a post that came to us from a fairly new member of the editorial community.
Unlike the previous post about why folks join, this speaks to a perception of DMOZ/ODP as a group of elitist few or a tribe of warring editors. A popular mis-conception that seems to pop up when whenever DMOZ pops up.
In fact, what the DMOZ community is...is a team. A collaborative group that partners to produce the data and results that so many people around the planet rely on.
Read away and let us know what you think.
-----------------------------------
Team that is ODP
I am now three months into my ODP "career" and enjoying it even more than when I started.
My eyes are still being opened daily about the enormity and complexity of the directory but one thing that has struck me most of all is the fellowship and the "team" nature of it all. The team spirit is obvious in many things that we do and very apparent from all people involved from those in staff to editors.
I have chosen my words in my last sentence very carefully and for a reason. You will notice that I did not say something like "...very apparent from all people involved from those in staff down to editors" or "very apparent from all people involved from those in all levels".
The overriding feelings that I get is that we are all in this because we care about the directory. Yes there are different people doing slightly different jobs but the overwhelming care is about the directory and I have met no one that seems only out for their own agenda. Of course there are disagreements about how things should be done, that will happen in any organization which is made up of people from the whole planet, but things are discussed, usually at length, and resolutions are come to.
Over the last few months I have been seeing things from a slightly different perspective than before I was an editor. I can see that many of the accusations made against the ODP are unfounded and sometimes downright wrong.
I do feel that some of the accusations come from people who think that the ODP is a "mutually exclusive club for the few" that no ordinary person can join and that the directory is a place that you would not be allowed access to unless you are part of that exclusive club. I must start off by saying that I am just an ordinary person who liked the look of the directory and applied to become an editor. I did not know any editors and I did not have any sites in the directory.
Anybody can apply to become an editor and as long as you have the skills to do the job then you will be welcomed. I have seen posts from people that have been rejected and are quite upset by this. We are very proud of this directory that we are all helping to build so it is without reservation that I say, the integrity of the directory has to be protected or it would just end up in chaos and would not be an entity worth doing. Some people are better at some things than others. Some people have the right skills for editing, some do not. That is no reflection on them as a person, which is how it is seems to be taken.
I would be willing to wager a lot of money that they will be capable of doing things that I am not. For instance, I am totally inept and drawing and artwork. Where would we be today without all the wonderful artists in the world. If I applied for a job as an artist, no matter how much I wanted it, I would be rejected. There are also many places within the directory that I could not edit in. The many parts of the directory that are not in the English language are out of bounds for me personally as I cannot speak any languages fluently enough to edit in them. If I applied to edit in these parts of the directory I would be rejected quite obviously.
There are some people out in Internet land that are vehement ODP haters and no matter what anybody says that will be their attitude. That is their business. I have also seen many folk slagging off the ODP and using unsubstantiated claims to forward their point of view. The ODP team has an official way of dealing with any claims of wrong doing and if substantiated these instances are dealt with both severely and unequivocally.
I would like to say that if you see anything that does not look right, DO NOT HESITATE to report it and the matter will be investigated. No one person is above ODP.
I have really enjoyed being part of this team and I would cordially invite all those who would like to be part of it as well to become editors. It is a really rewarding hobby and I would recommend it to anyone. I would also say to those that do not want to become editors but want to participate that your help is also most welcome. Please feel free to submit sites that you find on the Internet and are not listed and as discussed above please do not hesitate to let us know of problems that you find. Together we can make a great directory and the Internet a better place.
-----------------------
While this editor has remained nameless, feel free to ping me directly from this site :)
BBQGrant
Unlike the previous post about why folks join, this speaks to a perception of DMOZ/ODP as a group of elitist few or a tribe of warring editors. A popular mis-conception that seems to pop up when whenever DMOZ pops up.
In fact, what the DMOZ community is...is a team. A collaborative group that partners to produce the data and results that so many people around the planet rely on.
Read away and let us know what you think.
-----------------------------------
Team that is ODP
I am now three months into my ODP "career" and enjoying it even more than when I started.
My eyes are still being opened daily about the enormity and complexity of the directory but one thing that has struck me most of all is the fellowship and the "team" nature of it all. The team spirit is obvious in many things that we do and very apparent from all people involved from those in staff to editors.
I have chosen my words in my last sentence very carefully and for a reason. You will notice that I did not say something like "...very apparent from all people involved from those in staff down to editors" or "very apparent from all people involved from those in all levels".
The overriding feelings that I get is that we are all in this because we care about the directory. Yes there are different people doing slightly different jobs but the overwhelming care is about the directory and I have met no one that seems only out for their own agenda. Of course there are disagreements about how things should be done, that will happen in any organization which is made up of people from the whole planet, but things are discussed, usually at length, and resolutions are come to.
Over the last few months I have been seeing things from a slightly different perspective than before I was an editor. I can see that many of the accusations made against the ODP are unfounded and sometimes downright wrong.
I do feel that some of the accusations come from people who think that the ODP is a "mutually exclusive club for the few" that no ordinary person can join and that the directory is a place that you would not be allowed access to unless you are part of that exclusive club. I must start off by saying that I am just an ordinary person who liked the look of the directory and applied to become an editor. I did not know any editors and I did not have any sites in the directory.
Anybody can apply to become an editor and as long as you have the skills to do the job then you will be welcomed. I have seen posts from people that have been rejected and are quite upset by this. We are very proud of this directory that we are all helping to build so it is without reservation that I say, the integrity of the directory has to be protected or it would just end up in chaos and would not be an entity worth doing. Some people are better at some things than others. Some people have the right skills for editing, some do not. That is no reflection on them as a person, which is how it is seems to be taken.
I would be willing to wager a lot of money that they will be capable of doing things that I am not. For instance, I am totally inept and drawing and artwork. Where would we be today without all the wonderful artists in the world. If I applied for a job as an artist, no matter how much I wanted it, I would be rejected. There are also many places within the directory that I could not edit in. The many parts of the directory that are not in the English language are out of bounds for me personally as I cannot speak any languages fluently enough to edit in them. If I applied to edit in these parts of the directory I would be rejected quite obviously.
There are some people out in Internet land that are vehement ODP haters and no matter what anybody says that will be their attitude. That is their business. I have also seen many folk slagging off the ODP and using unsubstantiated claims to forward their point of view. The ODP team has an official way of dealing with any claims of wrong doing and if substantiated these instances are dealt with both severely and unequivocally.
I would like to say that if you see anything that does not look right, DO NOT HESITATE to report it and the matter will be investigated. No one person is above ODP.
I have really enjoyed being part of this team and I would cordially invite all those who would like to be part of it as well to become editors. It is a really rewarding hobby and I would recommend it to anyone. I would also say to those that do not want to become editors but want to participate that your help is also most welcome. Please feel free to submit sites that you find on the Internet and are not listed and as discussed above please do not hesitate to let us know of problems that you find. Together we can make a great directory and the Internet a better place.
-----------------------
While this editor has remained nameless, feel free to ping me directly from this site :)
BBQGrant
21. I have tried several time to register as an editor of DMOZ. I think that I am qualified to do so as
1. I speak English and Dutch
2. I lived in 5 different countries ( clear understanding of different cultures )
3. I have helped design and maintain sites from all over the world so it can not be claimed that I am biased in any one area but the Rejection letter just states " sorry we can take it no further" what would help would be a reason.
Its not personal I realise but a reason would help youunderstand.
I know what it is like to live in different cultures and to need to adapt to ways of thinking and living and have tried to justify how I feel I cna help the forum. It feels very much like a them and us attitude
That may not be the case but I would like to understand more
Kind Regards
David
Posted at 12:46PM on Dec 18th 2007 by David Wilson
22. As much as I would like to believe that the things you've said in this post are true, I have given up hope on DMOZ. I do not mean to disparage the work of those who have sunk in a lot of hours simply because they believe in the value of the directory. I have a friend who is an editor (or was the last time I discussed the topic with her) and I know that she does it for the right reasons. I'm sure there are many more like her.
But...the bad things have gone on too long. There's been no objective evidence to those of us not on the inside that anyone gives a damn when it comes to the categories that matter to us. I have watched more and more categories with shifting/disappearing editors. Personally, I know that my sites are high-value. All the letters of thanks I receive from site visitors are much more important in confirming that than any other criterion. But, with one exception, I haven't had a site added to DMOZ for the better part of 2-3 years (whether initiated by me or by an editor). If you were covering the categories properly, this would not be the case. My sites are too prominent in the search results and too well-linked from a variety of relevant sources to have been missed by anyone who was really looking.
I was very briefly an editor some years ago and had to drop out due to a sudden onset of difficult family circumstances that left me with no discretionary time. Because I believe in contrbuting to quality resources, I came back later to reapply...only to be grilled on every single site I manage (as if I was volunteering only to further my own personal agenda). I finally gave up in frustration. Here I am trying to help out in categories where I have at least a fair degree of knowledge and a good eye for quality...as well as some relevant web resources (which should be a qualification, not a reason for suspicion), and I'm being given the third degree. I feel like it would be a lot better to either pair up new editor applicants with an existing editor for peer review for a short time, or something less grueling. And, simply to try someone out, and see what they actually do...not what ones fears they might do. In other words, the path to acceptance as an editor appears to be an obstacle course. Maybe that's warranted because of the type of people that usually apply...but it drove me away. I am way too busy and have too much self-respect for that.
Either way, after watching key categories languish for so long without any moderation whatsoever, I feel as though I've been forced to the decision that DMOZ no longer really matters. I think it's sad...because an authoritative directory is clearly as important as is a relatively authoritative knowledgebase like Wikipedia. Something that stands out as a shining example of value. But I just don't see that it's so any longer. There may be categories where you're relevant, but in the ones where I have a personal interest...you're literally years out of date...which is an eternity in internet time.
I do wish you well, but I'm not expecting things to turn around.
Posted at 5:01PM on Dec 18th 2007 by Chuck
23. @David: I'm not sure exactly what you're saying was in the rejection message.
If the only content of the message was literally "sorry we can take it no further" then something might have gone wrong somewhere. You might want to head on over to http://www.resource-zone.com/forum/ where someone might be able to help you find out what should have happened.
You should have got a standard rejection message that contains a list of half-a-dozen or so common reasons why an application might be declined. If there are no additional comments then one or more of those reasons applies. Think of it as part of the application procedure to work out which it is and fix it next time. Mostly we encourage applicants who've been rejected to apply again.
On the other hand, it's possible that there was (in addition to the standard reply) a reviewer comment that suggested you shouldn't apply again. If so, then presumably something you wrote (or perhaps didn't write) in your application(s) led the reviewer to the conclusion that you wouldn't make a good editor. Sorry if this is the case, and good luck in your future endeavours.
Posted at 6:26PM on Dec 18th 2007 by chaos127
24. Chuck, thanks for taking the time to share everything above. Glad we didn't turn on the character count limit.
You raise a couple of key points, but I think one important one is that from your perspective...it might not seem like things are happening in DMOZ. That's just not the case. The fact that we have a blog and you can communicate with the editors directly is a step in the right direction.
Additionally, I'll apologize for the potential over zealous examination when you reapplied. But unfortunately, it is a part of the process. When you deal with constant, unfounded accusations of SPAM'ing or corruption, it is a necessary procedure.
But...if you feel you are a fine example of being a category expert and that category is vacant...we'd like you to reapply.
And if not you, please mention to someone who has the same level of passion for the catgories that are important to you. Capturing this data in DMOZ is important. It ensure that all the search engines will see it and raise it in prominence. PR4 is great...but acceptance into DMOZ can make that rank much much higher and ensure every one can find the sites that represent the best of that category. Globally.
Thanks again for the comment check, and please feel free to reach out to me if you have any questions or additional comments.
BBQGrant
Posted at 6:28PM on Dec 18th 2007 by bbqgrant
25. Following directions for submitting a url when I select the category I want (Shopping) there is no "submit url" button.
So how do I submit a url?
Posted at 6:16AM on Dec 19th 2007 by Terence M OConnor
26. This seems rather off-topic for this post, but...
If there is no "suggest URL" link on a given category, it's because that category doesn't accept public suggestions. You therefore need to find a better category (one of the sub-categories perhaps) to suggest the site to. Reading the category description might also help you understand where different sites should go.
Posted at 4:17AM on Dec 19th 2007 by chaos127
27. In my personal opinion
Team Dmoz is doing a great work...
i feel that this largest human edited directory is really gonna help many of us... It will not just help people save time finding what they want but will also help the website to reach a more and more pople all together...
thats a good work Team DMOZ...
PPS
Website Designing and Development Company
Posted at 10:56AM on Dec 30th 2007 by akshay
28. I'm glad to hear that you editors feel like a team and that you help each other. And if any of you would like to take charge of the babies and parenting categories I would be forever grateful! As of now, it is almost impossible to find a category with an editor within these areas.
Best regards, Paula
Posted at 6:41PM on Dec 30th 2007 by Paula
29. Wow... how many YEARS ago did i suggest that DMOZ have open communications outside of the hidden DMOZ forums? Lets see? 7 years ago.
O P E N up your hidden / Closed to the public forums to the public DMOZ. (What are you still hiding)
I proposed many, many ideas to make DMOZ a better entity and better environment for it's FREE LABORERS - maybe you will look them up and not take 7 more years to implement them.
Lastly, there has never been a problem with DMOZ - Just certain people who are in power. Its not about DMOZ as a utility, its about the people who control it.
Nick Sahadi :)
Posted at 4:16AM on Jan 2nd 2008 by Nick Sahadi
30. re. item 18. "if you feel you are a fine example of being a category expert and that category is vacant...we'd like you to reapply."
FTR The fact a editor may be already listed is not a reason to with-hold application to edit in partnership.
It may be best to apply for a category without sub-categories in the first instance.
re. item 19 & 20. >
These are categories where submissions have been disabled, to encourage the submission to sub-categories or related categories.
Where the apparant subcategories end in @ the category is termed a link farm.
Please make your best guess, before submitting.
Posted at 6:13AM on Jan 2nd 2008 by sutty
31. Hello I was referred by Jackie that there maybe potential visitors who may be interested in working or seeking for other ways to earn income as a full or part time basis. I am interested in promoting a site provided by World Marketing Systems. Because of my regional area (Guam) recommendations as to where I should be placing my ads to promote world marketing recruits may just be here. I an new so I don't know exactly if this is the regional area I should be in. The 3 areas of location based on Google Adsense advised in the recent google are groups are North America, South America and Japan. I am not sure if I need to notify Adsense of this change. Please advise. I am promoting possibility for others to make income as well as shop at two availabe acessible sites. Ebay, Amazon and World Marketing recruitment. Have been around and still need to get traffic to visit the site that is provided by them. There are 2 sites I would like to promote.
url: http://cmp.cathymarieshoppingcenter.com
url: http://Cathymarie.lawnchairmillionaire.com
Please advise me as to what to do or where I should go from here.
Thank You,
CP Palomo
Posted at 7:33AM on Feb 9th 2008 by Cathymarie
32. BBQGrant,
Thanks for the post, I just read it through and feel that it gives a good insite about whats its like to be an editor at DMOZ. I have got to say that it sounds like a lot of work althought I guess you can take it or leave it. Online communities and forums are only as good as the editors it you ask me. Look at the editors on webmasterworld. They are sh*t hot with new posts, commetns and everything.
Latter.
Peace.
Al
Posted at 8:12AM on Jan 21st 2008 by FireflySEO